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Cam chain tensioner repair

52722 Views 64 Replies 20 Participants Last post by  Corndog, 
Corndog
Do any of you have the "rattle"?

There have been several threads over the years about replacing the OEM cam chain tensioner (cct) with aftermarket manual type (no spring). This is a fine method but I wanted to fix the stock one. This is done to eliminate the rattle that shows up in the Rincon. The rattle is worse when cold and goes away when hot…eventually it will not go away. The rattle is your cam chain whipping around due to inadequate tension and will wear out the chain more quickly than a properly tensioned one.

There are several threads relating to parts of this issue and repair, so some of what I suggest is not my original thinking. Here goes.

The stock cct uses a spring loaded ratchet that extends as the chain wears. This is the issue. The ratchet has 4 revolutions from full in to full out. When the chain is new, the cct does not extend much and the spring is tight. As the chain wears, the ratchet goes further out and the spring unwinds thus having less force available. Somebody posted once that they tightened the spring but had no more details how they did it.

On my atv the OEM cct started to rattle at 7500 or so miles and I just replaced it. Problem solved for a while. Then lately at 11,300 miles the rattle returned. I was going to put a manual cct in but did not want to always wonder does it need to be adjusted or not (and I am cheap). So I removed my cct to have a look.

Sure enough, on my bike the cct is currently at 3 revolutions out and I only have a little more travel left (1 revolution). The remaining spring tension in the cct was not enough to extend the ratchet any further. I had a spare cct from the first change. I disassembled it to see how to tighten the spring.

Here is the best description I can give.

· Remove the retaining circlip with the plunger held by a finger so it does not pop out of the cct body.
· Let the interior mechanism come out until the circlip groove is just above the cct body still holding plunger with finger.
· Use installation key or screw driver and add 2 to 3 “extra” full twists (complete 360 revolutions) to spring. I would not add more spring tension than this as the spring would have unwound the amount I am rewinding it.
· Then push plunger back inside cct body until circlip can be reinstalled.
· This seems complicated and took me a few hours to figure out it could be done without fully disassembling the cct.
· The difference in force the cct applies after fixing is very noticeable.

I reinstalled the cct and my bike is now purring again when cold at start up. When it starts to rattle again, I likely will need a new cam chain.

I had pictures but they were not good enough to show what I was doing...sorry. I will check in on thread if anybody has questions or comments about my repair. Happy motoring.

Rattle free again in Kentucky.
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Corndog
The main four things that make a Rincon rattle are;

1) The CCT. If your chain is stretched you may need to tighten spring in tensioner...yes even a new tensioner.
2) Loose exhaust or busted baffle in exhaust.
3) Cam lobes worn down, some have soft cams with bad surface hardening.
4) Auto decompression release has something coming apart.

I would start by seeing how far out the CCT is unwinding, its in my other post on the issue. Eliminate an exhaust rattle. Next I would check valve clearance, if cam is wearing you will see excessive clearance. It may be time to pull the cylinder head off and have a look at the cam and decompression device.

A valve rattle is pretty subtle unless they are way off and the cam is fried. It will be rhythmic and a constant frequency that increases with rpm. The other three noises are more sporadic and not constant in rhythm.

I am not a fan of riding it until parts come out the exhaust or the timing chain skips or snaps......but that would guide you to the problem. GOOD LUCK.
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Thanks Corndog, I removed my tensioner and managed to get spring wound tighter. I am not sure how many extra turns it got, as it ended up unwinding completely on me before I figured out exactly what I was doing. The way it is now the spring is pretty much wound right up when the pin is in, but I think that will be fine since my pin is out 3.3 turns before chain is tight. I will put it back on my bike tomorrow and hope it is nice and quiet. Not sure how much longer I should go on this chain with only .7 of a turn left on tensioner. Any idea how many turns on tensioner when everything is new. A little over 10,000 miles on my 2004 Rincon?
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spdrcr29
Hey guys just wanted to give you all an update on the rattle noise I have been chasing. Checked valve lash on intake and exhaust a few weekends ago, but they were dead nuts on. I also replaced the tensioner and still no change in the rattle noise. Last weekend, I changed out the oil and filter again and took the suggestion from other members to switch to a good synthetic. Decided to go with the Mobil 1 4T 10w-40. Couldn't find it anywhere in 10w-30.


Anyway, changed the oil last weekend. My Rincon then sat for the past week until this morning when I started it up cold. To my surprise, the rattle noise was gone. Even drove it around for a little while and I never heard it. Don't know if it was a fluke, but I'm gonna cross my fingers and hope the noise stays gone for good!


I can't really explain how switching to synthetic oil made the noise go away. As I mentioned earlier the rattle noise was always heard down low towards the front of the engine and loudest around the oil filter housing area. I know the oil pump is also up front, but can't imagine there's anything wrong with it having only 43hrs on my ride. Still scratching my head over this ordeal, but it sure seems that switching to synthetic has made an effect on the noise...
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Corndog
Quinn said:
Thanks Corndog, I removed my tensioner and managed to get spring wound tighter. I am not sure how many extra turns it got, as it ended up unwinding completely on me before I figured out exactly what I was doing. The way it is now the spring is pretty much wound right up when the pin is in, but I think that will be fine since my pin is out 3.3 turns before chain is tight. I will put it back on my bike tomorrow and hope it is nice and quiet. Not sure how much longer I should go on this chain with only .7 of a turn left on tensioner. Any idea how many turns on tensioner when everything is new. A little over 10,000 miles on my 2004 Rincon?
Click to expand...
I am guessing 1.5 to 2 revs new. Mine was at 2.5 around 7500 miles if I recall correctly. Mine is at 3 now. When my rattle returns and if the CCT is 4 turns out, I plan on a new chain and guides.
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Corndog said:
Along the same line, the tensioner can be diagnosed as your issue without removal. Just remove the access bolt on the end and insert key or screw driver. Start machine cold and immediately engage the key or screw driver and turn it ccw slightly adding tensioner pressure, if rattle goes away, you have the issue. Be ready to burn your hands...I did.
Click to expand...
I have this noise AGAIN, I got the tensioner replaced 2 years ago when I had the noise back then and the quad was stalling then too. The new tensioner fixed both these issues.

However, 2 years later and I have what I believe to be the same noise. So the noise has returned approx 110hrs and 2150km later. Does this seem likely? From searching this forum and reading about this topic it appears it does seem likely, but 100hrs isn't a lot for a tensioner to last?

Should I now:
A - Replace with another oem tensioner.
B - try and tighten the current tensioners spring like Corndog and other did on this forum.
C - Replace with another oem tensioner and also tighten its spring before fitting.

Any advice appreciated! :)
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Corndog said:
Along the same line, the tensioner can be diagnosed as your issue without removal. Just remove the access bolt on the end and insert key or screw driver. Start machine cold and immediately engage the key or screw driver and turn it ccw slightly adding tensioner pressure, if rattle goes away, you have the issue. Be ready to burn your hands...I did.
Click to expand...
I'm going to try this to be 100% it is the tensioner. Can we just confirm it definitely is Counter Clock Wise I turn it to add some tensioner pressure? And if the noise goes away when turning it can I just leave it in that position or do I need to turn it back to its starting point? Or am I correct in thinking I won't be able to turn it back to its starting point as it shouldn't be possible to wind it back?
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Corndog
Quadder - it has been a few years since I did this. When you turn screw with screw driver you should be extending/tightening the CCT and taking slack out of chain. The tensioner actually pushes on the end of the timing chain guide. There is no need to turn screw looser after the test. Theoretically the spring should always be tightening the tensioner slightly and the ratchet keeps it extended so it cannot retract again.

The tensioner works by unwinding using a spring like a clock and the ratchet keeps it from retracting and releasing pressure. If you have an old one you can play with it first to see how it works. When you wind the plunger in with a screw driver, hold the plunger with your finger and let it extend out under spring pressure a little then try pushing plunger in...it should not retract. Repeat this at different plunger extension lengths....you will see how it woks. It can always be retracted using the screw driver but the plunger should not retract by pushing it anywhere along its travel.

My theory/opinion/educated guess is that after the timing chain wears some the tensioner is extended to far for the factory wound spring tension to keep the ratchet from allowing the unit to retract. After my second OEM tensioner rattled (the first lasted a couple years) is when I decided to try tightening the spring some. I did a post already on how I accomplished this and I would use the newest CCT tensioner you have to tighten. Use the old one to practice taking it apart as its a little tricky to remove the plunger mechanism just enough to add tension without letting the spring completely unwind. I would only tighten it a few turns....at least that is what I did. Mine is still humming along fine with no rattle at all at cold start.

The other option is to buy a manual CCT tensioner but then you will need to periodically adjust it.
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clearification

Hi, first let me say thanks for this information. I had a question about the plastic shoe the tensioner pushes against the chain. My son just just purchased a used 2005 trx650, I pulled the tensioner, the plastic shoe appears be broken. can this be replaced from the top end or do I need to pull the torque converter. we were told the bike had a new chain so I was hoping I didn't have go this far.

Thanks
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Corndog
I loaned my manual out. I believe you will only need to pull the head and cylinder though. I will have my shop manual back Friday.
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W
Thanks, I do have a manual that doesn't give the best layout. Yes I have to pull the front cover to get at the chain and shoe, got it half ripped apart now.
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Q
I went to try eliminate the rattle now by adjusting the cam chain tensioner with the quad running to see if the noise stopped or got quieter. However, the exhaust is in my way of getting a screw driver to go in straight enough to turn the screw. I even grinded down a long screwdriver to try. Did you folks manage this without removing the exhaust, I can remove the heatshield, I removed the heatshield bolt that was in the way but still can't get in straight without removing the exhaust.
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Corndog
I used the short key that came with the new CCT. A short screw driver will do it. It is a tight fit to get your hand in for sure. I removed the plastic shield and went in from the left side.
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B
I use a small screwdriver, about 3 inches in total length
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I grinded down a screwdriver to fit, cheers for the tip. The good news is I got the screwdriver to fit, the bad news is I couldn't turn the screw anti-clockwise to tighten so this suggests the tensioner is already at its max position. I screwed it clockwise to retract just to make sure I was actually able to turn the screw and I could turn clockwise no problem.

So, does this mean my chain needs replacing or will I get away with:
A - fitting another tensioner
B - fitting another tensioner but try to wind the spring tighter before fitting like CornDog did
C - Fit a new chain and tensioner?
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Quadder said:
I grinded down a screwdriver to fit, cheers for the tip. The good news is I got the screwdriver to fit, the bad news is I couldn't turn the screw anti-clockwise to tighten so this suggests the tensioner is already at its max position. I screwed it clockwise to retract just to make sure I was actually able to turn the screw and I could turn clockwise no problem.



So, does this mean my chain needs replacing or will I get away with:

A - fitting another tensioner

B - fitting another tensioner but try to wind the spring tighter before fitting like CornDog did

C - Fit a new chain and tensioner?
Click to expand...


Hi I am new and still learning about the Rincons but I believe you need to turn the adjuster clockwise while counting the turns total max turns would be 4 would mean the adjuster is fully extended anything past 3 and look at corn dogs mod. I would suggest pulling the tensioner and inspecting the end as well as the shoe that hits the chain. The bike I am working on had a broken shoe so I pulled it apart and am waiting on a new timing chain, tensioner and shoe.
You will not be able to adjust clockwise as the chain will stop the tensioner from extending any further. A slight turn to see if the noise quiets with a tad more tension is a test of the adjuster strength.


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Q
Had another go at this, counted 3.5 turns clock wise. So I need to tighten the spring, will fitting a new tensioner suffice?
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W
3.5 turns you could try the mod but sounds like your cam chain is almost worn out. Pull the tensioner and inspect inside the hole and the end of the tensioner to ensure no broken parts do the mod and plan for the cam chain in the near future, would be my call. Others might have other suggestions.


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@ WSG - How big a job was it to remove the chain on the Rincon you're working on? I've had the engine out before to replace the reverse gears and it was big enough job. I assume the engine has to come out to replace the chain, I'd like to avoid such big surgery again if possible.
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W
I am doing it in frame, it's not hard but the manual had me take the shift pump, water pump to remove the cover. It seems I could of left them in place till I removed the cover but not sure. Waiting on torque converter puller atm, if I had the parts beforehand it would be a weekend job. This is my sons bike so I took it apart and only ordered the must have parts as he is on a budget, I am replacing the oil pump chain while inside the front case. Just look for the oil tubes when removing cover. Great thing is we get a chance to see how the inside looked as its a new purchase you never know, great learning experience for me as well. I still need to find a tube of hondabond ht as I just seen they are not shipping it with my parts order. I am in Canada and ordered thru partzilla but they are slow as crap due to no stock on some parts. Ballpark $400 us in parts with the puller, which we will resell and recoup $50. If funds are available recommend changing all orings and the mechanical seal in the water pump while it is apart if you have any seeping. Our Rincon is a 2005 and I found a thread about the mechanical seal from another bike will work as Honda only lists a complete pump for this bike. Hope this helps and gives you some insight.


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wsg said:
I am doing it in frame, it's not hard but the manual had me take the shift pump, water pump to remove the cover. It seems I could of left them in place till I removed the cover but not sure. Waiting on torque converter puller atm, if I had the parts beforehand it would be a weekend job. This is my sons bike so I took it apart and only ordered the must have parts as he is on a budget, I am replacing the oil pump chain while inside the front case. Just look for the oil tubes when removing cover. Great thing is we get a chance to see how the inside looked as its a new purchase you never know, great learning experience for me as well. I still need to find a tube of hondabond ht as I just seen they are not shipping it with my parts order. I am in Canada and ordered thru partzilla but they are slow as crap due to no stock on some parts. Ballpark $400 us in parts with the puller, which we will resell and recoup $50. If funds are available recommend changing all orings and the mechanical seal in the water pump while it is apart if you have any seeping. Our Rincon is a 2005 and I found a thread about the mechanical seal from another bike will work as Honda only lists a complete pump for this bike. Hope this helps and gives you some insight.


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Click to expand...
Cheers for the info, that's great that the engine can be left in. I might decide to replace the chain now too. My Rincon is a 2005 year as well :) Is the puller for the torque converter a special tool type puller or will any standard puller do the trick? Would you happen to have picture or a link to it if its a special tool.
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