wouldnt worry about whos jets they are... they are just brass plugs drilled out with cheap bits, the tolerances are extremely poor, but a #152 is the same (or should be) inside diameter from Keihin to DJ... they never are, but thats the idea.
incidentaly, you dont realy need to rejet the stock carb, thats a #152 in there, what you need to do is get rid of that telephone pole that comes stock in the slide and replace it with somthing thats a little more pointy...so, if you buy a DJ kit, leave the stock main jet in there and just change the needle and spring, seriously...if you change your aircleaner and exhaust, you'll find that the largest DJ jet supplied isnt as big as the suggested smallest on the HMF website... a #160
that is my rant... at some point I will start a "My Rant" thread... just as soon as I can find an adequate photograph
Well the pipe will arrive tomorrow, so i need to change out the jetting as well. I know you have HMF, which is cool. But if anyone on here who rides at or near sealevel with the MBRP, can you tell me what you actually did. Maybe the brand doesnt matter, maybe it does...Anyway, i have to get this figured out before i attempt to do this.
The Moose Jet Kit is really a Dyno kit it says that on the box. And I have to disagree with mudchucker on the DJ jets, yes it is true that the stock jet may be a little bigger but the DJ jets used with the DJ needle will flow more fuel than the stock jet will with the DJ needle. If you will look really close at the two jets you can see that the tapper inside the jets are totally differant. I have tried about every jet you can think of and I always go back to the DJ #150 main, but things do work better for some then they do others, but I do believe that you will get the most power out of your four wheeler by not mixing the stock parts and the DJ parts. This is just one persons opinion just use what works best for you cause your the one who will be riding it.
I have been waiting for someone to challenge me on this advice for a while...04RINCONMAN, this isnt an attack on you in anyway, you just happend to be the first person with the kahunas to challenge the advice of a freak who rejets as often as he rides...(well not at the moment, its too damn cold outside)
The jets actually dont have a taper in them... the taper is in the sleeve that the jet screws onto. if you feel you must see this for yourself, take any main jet you might have, and slide it down (gently) onto the spare needle you have (assuming you have rejetted and have the stock needle in your tool box) now, mark how far down the needle the jet came, and take the jet off and turn it over and slide it back down, you will see that with the exception of the shoulders the actualy bore of the jet slides down just as far...if it were tapered, depending on wich end you slid down first, it would either slide further down or not as far down the needle
this thread here,
discusses the various jetting sizes, and the lack of tolerances...
another forum user who works in a machine shop whos nickname is comtnman took the jets to work and measured the jets inside diameter...you can find his original post here,
take note of comtnmans findings, the stock #152 has in ID of, .058 and the DJ #150 has an ID of, .058 (so does the #148 but this goes to the piss poor tolerances I mentioned)
So, Mr 04RINCONMAN who thinks the best jet he has used is a DJ #150, doesnt it stand to good reason to save on the labor of changing a main jet (for first timers this can take a while and the risk of braking somthing or stripping a screw,, is it worth it) and simply leave in the stock jet of the same inside diameter...especially no that you know there is no taper in the jets.
My suspicion is that DJ and Moose, dont actually make anything, they only package and rebrand products...I do know that I can buy blank Main jets and drill them out myself as well. Im told by the speed shop I go to that this is most maojor racers do it, they start with a blank, and keep enlarging the jet size until they are too rich and finaly redrill another blank to size smaller...this way they only need to buy 2 blanks, instead of buying a kit with 10 jets in it for example.
by taking a look at Keihin's web site,
you can get a list of all the various jets and so forth the pilot jets are series 26 and the main jets are series 393 ( I have been buying my Keihin jets through a steen hansen distributor here in winnipeg)
the various needles are also available (The next time I have my carb apart I will measure the shoulder of the DJ needle so I can figure out wich Keihin needle it is. My plan is to do the same, but to include larger jets and sell the "Monster Quad Jet Kit" ahem... I digress....
http://www.keihin-us.com/needle.htm (note the typo on the page title can you tell I have been reading this too much
this page shows you the various needles, I suspect that I could buy a needle with less taper on it or a shorter taper, giving even more punch from mid to high range...
So the question your all asking... why if the stock main jet is a #152 (keihin part number 99101-393-152) and the suggested DJ jet (for most of us I presume) is a #144 (Keihin part number 99101-393-144 (its not on the list, but you can order that part number via steen hansen)) why then does down sizing the jet make me go faster... well, I would like to say "sonic nozzle theory" but thats another story, the truth of the matter is the needle taper and height adjustment of the needle...
Now to discuss the reference regarding the MBRP and my HMF.... I havent tried an MBRP before, and dont know anyone that has one on a quad... but my guess is that its considerably less restrictave then stock... and I wouldnt go anything less then the stock #152 or the DJ #150 --- infact, if your not too concerend about fuel economy, start at keihin #158.. this ran very well in mine, but yoiks ! did I use a lot of gas... I think the best all round jetting so far, is a stock pilot and the DJ #150 or stock main jet...if you are riding mostly near sea level the air is considerably more dense (im at 750 feet) so you can get away with larger jetting then you might think...
Mr Mudchucker, I am not going to disagree with you on the tapper of the jets at this time I may have mis-read and misunderstood my readings but I will recheck everything, but if you are correct why does DJ even give you jets with there kit why not just sale you a needle and spring. I will have to disagree with you on Dj not making there jets, moose doesn't make there own they just sale the DJ under the moose name And just as you have I have tried lots of jets (158,160,165,170) and none of them will compare to the DJ 150 on my machine and if your findings are correct I don't understand why, it should just be the other way around wouldn't you think. Oh one more question if they are the same why are you running the 150. Maybe two freaks like ourselfs can put our heads together and getting some more power out of these rincons. Did you ever try changing your pilot and if so did you have any luck.
to answer those questions Im mostly going to have speculate;
but if you are correct why does DJ even give you jets with there kit why not just sale you a needle and spring
I believe that this is just marketing, we all know what jetting means, but who would think to "needle and clip" ? this is a great way for DJ and such to sell more stuff.
I will have to disagree with you on Dj not making there jets, moose doesn't make there own they just sale the DJ under the moose name
I supose that as blanks are easily purchased, anyone could drill them out and sell them... sure, why not... OK. DJ prolly does make their own stuff.
And just as you have I have tried lots of jets (158,160,165,170) and none of them will compare to the DJ 150 on my machine and if your findings are correct I don't understand why, it should just be the other way around wouldn't you think.
To be totaly honest, I dont know, I believe some of this goes to the crapy tolerences of the jets, and I believe its a match between the pilot and the needle as well. The pilot is still part of the WOT circuit in that its also spraying an air fuel mixture wich mixes in with that of the main. This is why I started with various pilot jets and main jet combinations.
As far as why does DJ have you install a smaller jet with their needle, well, (and again Im only speculating) Im guessing that its a liability thing, by going to the smaller jet with the different needle they are playing it safe, assuming the user hasnt change the exhaust, or air cleaner, the #144 might be the safest amount of fuel with that particular needle...this kinda prolly falls under the same voodoo that would answer the question, why fsck with the air fuel screw if all you have done is changed the main jet...
Im running the 150 because after a few canadian whiskeys I thought it was the 158 when I put it in... when I was organizing my "jet kit" I saw the 158 was still in there and the 150 was missing...and now its too damn cold to change it...
Yes, I did do some fscking around with the pilot... odly enough the 160 main with a #48 pilot (size smaller then stock) seems to have been the best combination, it realy pulled hard and rev'ed fast... but holy shite! did it use a lot of fuel...I went from about 60 miles per tank to about 40 miles per tank, all things being relative tho, the fun factor was pretty high that day as we had had some dry windy days that made the soft mud nice and thick...So I thought that by going down a size to the 158 and stock pilot, that I would still get the same ratio of A/F at WOT but not have the same volume, but would still have the accelertation...
Im done jetting for the year until it warms up and I can adequatley gauge performance in somthing my mudlites can hook up on.
Thank god I can ride all year long. Mine will go 83.8 miles on a tank. Thats what the odo said when she quit.Long live Kentucky Bourbon.I can almost stagger to the Distillery from my house.
I rejetted my XR4oo when i piped it but I'm to chicken shit to fry my Rincon. Mudchucker, you guys been doing spark plug checks and such, rich is fine but lean can be bad news.When you get your jet kit and your Rinny hasn;t grenaded, I will buy one.
I dont bother to check my plug... with all the additives and such I could be barfing black smoke and still have a clean plug...
Im not worried about running lean... Im definatly putting in more fuel then before, I dont have any signifigant backfires, and it doesnt miss at the topend... so, all is well...
as Im not puffing any black smoke when I gun it I also suspect that im not too rich either... unless your realy fsck shite up, lean or rich are actually hard conditions to reach, the machine wont realy run so well in either state.. from stalling, to not idleing, you realy need to be bang on..
I guess from my previous life of 2-strokes (yes I come from the dark side) rejetting has always made me nervous. I know there is a beast to be awakened within the Rinny. I am interested in rejetting AND keeping my stock pipe. I ride some areas where the commando approach is required and I hunt the machine a lot. Some around here have the secondary mufflers and the rinny sounds like a golf cart.
corndog i have been running the jet kit for over 4300 miles,[email protected] filter,larger tip on exhaust....been running the dj 144 most of the time,once it starts getting cold i move up to the dj146...no grenading here...
Does larger exhaust tip increase noise any ? Would the jetting you recommend work with stock pipe ? How about mudchuckers needle change, you stock on the needle and clip.
Maybe when its warm again I'll be more in the mood to go fast. I usually hop on my XR when I feel the need for speed. I highly redcommend XR's for quad people with a closest fetish for motorcycles. They are the ATVs of motorcycles, however, they still fall over when you get off...that should tell me something....if I was smart enough...
Believe it or not, I have been hurt more times on the quad. But when the bike decides to bite me, it usually mean.
yes the larger tip makes for some more noise,nowhere near like all the pipes i have heard...
i am useing all of the jet kit parts,needle,spring and jets...
i just like you learned all about jetting on 2 strokes,i do not have the time or patience to test on the rincon,i would rather be riding...so i took dyno jets recomendations on jetting,i can tell this they know thier stuff,this was our 3rd trip to colorado,we stay at 9000 ft,i dropped down to the jet the instructions said too and the rincon ran the best out of all the times we were there,no sputtering,great mileage and could hang will all the other rides(polaris 700 efi.grizz's)so iw ill stay within their instructions,i already know how rich my buddy's rincon ran when he tried the dj 148,so we stick with the 144 and 146 depending on season..still get 17.5 miles per gallon on most of our adventures..